Out of Hiding...

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Out of Hiding...

Post by Xanamiar »

I'm usually the last one to post anything about this, and honestly I probably wouldn't be posting this now.. But I for some reason felt the need to say something.

This board used to be a place to go to have fun, to play out characters in our own universe, to enjoy the story telling of others, and to just have plain out fun.

We've been here too long I think, 10 years with the same old faces seems to have caused enough conflict to fuel the next space mission to Mars. But why is everyone so angry? I hear complaints from all the different sides about all the reasons why this board is failing, and why it's not going to go anywhere.

Why can't we all just put the past behind us, and concentrate on story, the main reason why we are here. Because honestly, if things keep going the way they have been, we're all going to be to miserable to write anything down.

I know at least 90% of the boards feel warn out, tired of fighting... If you're really tired of fighting then stop fighting!... Enjoy the story aspects, enjoy the fun of the boards. Stop worrying about what others may think of you OOC, and start worrying about where the stories are going.

I've had my status set for "hide my online status" for about 5 years now. Mainly because I didn't care if people knew I was here or not. But if I'm getting back into actual story telling, then I figured I'd take my hide status off so people know when I'm around. It used to be we had 1 or 2 hiding viewers from time to time, now it's more like 3 or 4 at all times. I know there are some that have a valid reason to be in hiding, and I'm not talking about them at all. But the rest of us, what are we hiding from?... Are we really hiding from one another?

I'm done hiding, and plan to get back to some story telling. And I wanted to encourage everyone to do the same. Leave the pettiness in the past, and let's just start having fun again, I miss the days when a thread would go very fast, and was a very enjoyable read, despite the 4 or 5 people writing on it. That's what made this board strong to start with, and the only thing that hasn't let it die off completely.

Let's start building this community back up, and stop tearing it down!
Last edited by Xanamiar on Mon May 16, 2011 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Mir »

Hooah.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by xfiend1013 »

Xanamiar wrote: We've been here too long I think, 10 years with the same old faces seems to have caused enough conflict to fuel the next space mission to Mars. But why is everyone so angry?
TO SPAAAAAAAAAAAACE!

I'm in spaaaaaace!

I'm glad we're good for something.

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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Xanamiar »

xfiend1013 wrote:
Xanamiar wrote: We've been here too long I think, 10 years with the same old faces seems to have caused enough conflict to fuel the next space mission to Mars. But why is everyone so angry?
TO SPAAAAAAAAAAAACE!

I'm in spaaaaaace!

I'm glad we're good for something.

Note: If we could actually work out a way for internet flames to actually fuel something real, all our problems would be solved.

"I get 200 miles per flame in my car!" ... Yeah, that would solve all my problems.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Pryde »

Here's a crazy idea, stop complaining about other posters behind their backs in PMs to your friends 'cause I don't know if anyone's noticed but doing that has a way of making your friends miserable too. Now you're miserable, your friends are miserable and your friend's friends are going to be miserable after they're done PMing their complaints and it's just a vicious cycle of spreading misery. If you have a complaint about a particular poster tell the mods and if you have a complaint about a mod tell the admin and if you have a complaint about the admin tell Neuge. Wild concept, I know, but that's what we're here for. Seriously, if there is something upsetting you don't let it fester, tell us and maybe we can do something about it.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by PalinSoulForge »

All the problems stim from us getting away three fundamental rules the board started with.

1. 3 ship rule
2. no GMing/GMed characters
3. No controlling cannon

We let those rules slip to the wayside little by little and now for the most part they aren't followed at all. I share the blame in this since clearly I've been breaking #1 for along time, for "story" purposes the same excuse everyone else uses. If we can get back to the core of what SWE is then that will fix a lot of the problems, as well as getting rid of all these hidden forums(not talking about mod forum) and all these PMs where things are decided years in advance OOC: and then when someone wants to do something IC: who isn't prevy to those forums/pms gets told off because its already been called in a PM 3 months ago, yet a year later that story still hasn't happened and the person who got told off just gets fed up and leaves because they can't do anything without a ton of people getting mad cause they planned something there months ago.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Nichalus »

PalinSoulForge wrote:All the problems stim from us getting away three fundamental rules the board started with.

1. 3 ship rule
2. no GMing/GMed characters
3. No controlling cannon

We let those rules slip to the wayside little by little and now for the most part they aren't followed at all. I share the blame in this since clearly I've been breaking #1 for along time, for "story" purposes the same excuse everyone else uses. If we can get back to the core of what SWE is then that will fix a lot of the problems, as well as getting rid of all these hidden forums(not talking about mod forum) and all these PMs where things are decided years in advance OOC: and then when someone wants to do something IC: who isn't prevy to those forums/pms gets told off because its already been called in a PM 3 months ago, yet a year later that story still hasn't happened and the person who got told off just gets fed up and leaves because they can't do anything without a ton of people getting mad cause they planned something there months ago.
I have to agree with 'some' of what Palin is saying.

The 3 ship rule I never fully agreed with, even in a space battle, who decides who wins in that situation? It isn't like a sim where there is a program that crunches numbers, odds, attack modes, etc.. These led to arguements about who 'wrote' the battle, or who 'wrote' the better tactical battle. They will 'never' fly on a writing forum, because everyone believes that they are a better tactician than the other.

GM'ed characters have there place, but ONLY for story purposes only, and they should be taken out of the equation after the completion of the story. You risk alienating the other members of the board who do not have a character that could possibly win in a story against them, and you invite the owner of the uber powerful character to believe that no one can stop them, and all must do what that character says or risk their character being seen as nothing.

As far as the canon, it was inevitable that we were going to stray from what is official. I consider this board kinda like how they rebooted the Star Trek franchise. We have created our own timeline. This I don't mind as much.

Now, as far as these 'secret' boards, or these plots that have been in the making for supposed months or years. That is all well and good as well, BUT you creators of these plots need to be more open, and ADAPTABLE to other members of the board. Nothing should be set in stone, and it is either you do what I said, or your not going to be a part of it. That is called, and will be seen, as an 'elitest' attitude.

If someone that is not privy to these secret plots, wishes to be involved, then it should be seen as a 'good' thing. It shows that you all 'want' to work together with others, and creates a more cohesive element to the boards. That doesn't mean that you have to change the outcome of the plot, but it could add an element to the plot that will make it more interesting for people to write and read. Being closed minded to others thoughts or wishes creates the appearance that 'you select few' own the MBT, and that everyone else's opinion doesn't matter.

And please, don't hand me the excuse of "Well, they are free to RP on the MBT, BUT we don't have to recognize what they do." Now unless someone is just completely GMing something..[no, I'm not going to say his name, due to the fact that I believe it puts a curse on your family]...then every effort should be made for us to welcome the idea, or offer our opinions.

We WANT people to be able to work together on these boards. The reason this board is losing so many members, and not getting any new ones, is the fact that there are elements (members) of this board that will not allow their egos to see the bigger picture, and that what they see should be taken as rule. We should 'all' be adaptable to someone who is interested in getting involved.

That's my two cents.....
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Shaggy »

I think he was trying to be positive and I like his ideas on people not trying to pull strings in the background.

For some reason people take what Ghost says and spin it negatively, I don't think he was doing that here.
Poisoning the system slowly by pitting players against one and another by spreading malicious rumors and tall tales of "He said, She said" In order to benefit their self.
Unfortunately this is life and that is what many people do. It's that whole passive-aggressive nonsense and it really does need to stop. PM the person and actually talk to them. Explain yourself instead of igniting a flame war and maybe more people would come to these boards. When we started this whole thing, it was to be above the pettiness of the SWG boards. We wanted to be better but instead we brought a lot of what drove down those boards to this one.

I agree with Xan on this one. Build up not bring down.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Xanamiar »

I'm fine with that part of what he said. I don't like that he pointed out that he's talking about only one individual. To me that's poking another member which is tearing down. It's not that I'm spinning it negatively, I'm seeing it for what it is, an attack on another member. If he rewords it where he's not pointing out one member, I'm fine with the statement.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Darkheyr »

PalinSoulForge wrote:All the problems stim from us getting away three fundamental rules the board started with.

1. 3 ship rule
2. no GMing/GMed characters
3. No controlling cannon

We let those rules slip to the wayside little by little and now for the most part they aren't followed at all. I share the blame in this since clearly I've been breaking #1 for along time, for "story" purposes the same excuse everyone else uses. If we can get back to the core of what SWE is then that will fix a lot of the problems, as well as getting rid of all these hidden forums(not talking about mod forum) and all these PMs where things are decided years in advance OOC: and then when someone wants to do something IC: who isn't prevy to those forums/pms gets told off because its already been called in a PM 3 months ago, yet a year later that story still hasn't happened and the person who got told off just gets fed up and leaves because they can't do anything without a ton of people getting mad cause they planned something there months ago.
The three ship rule is bollocks, in my eyes, and rule 2 is followed better nowadays than it was way back. I'm not entirely sure what the issue with number 3 is, these days.

My opinion on secret forums and behind-the-backs stuff should be well known. :D
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Cadden »

The 3 ship rule, I never liked. Since when did any conflict in Star Wars be settled with only three ships? Can you have a Battle of Endor with three ships? Or, hey, what about the Xen'Chi stuff we went through? How does that work if we only had three ships we could control? I'm with everyone else when I say that rule... sucks.

GMed characters? I don't know of any character around here that is truly GMed. Else all the characters would be GMed. Sure, there's powerful characters, like Sivter, Malakai, and Rahk'neqah, running around (others, so that I'm not being exclusive, like Velok and Kabal, would be considered "up there" by your definition, but I'm guessing not to the same point). But, as this has been talked in great detail elsewhere, I'll simply summarize it... you don't know what the owners of said "GMed characters" have in mind. I know for a fact that almost nobody on the boards knows anything more about the Rahk'neqah than what I have already revealed... which isn't much at all. I fail to see how you can justify saying that the so-called "GMed characters" need to go away.

Finally... canon isn't really controlled, persay. We're our own canon, we've branched off from canon after the Battle of Endor. This is one of the things that makes this place tick. Sure, some elements are controlled, such as Thrawn at the GE, but those are necessary, and controllable by anyone. Canon characters in control of the GE and NR was put in place so that no one person could run such large influences on SW history. However, the problem arises that, without making posts that RP those characters, the governments are, effectively, dead and useless. A middle ground has to be established, and so it was. As for other things... well, let's start with the Jedi. You can't really say the Jedi Order on our boards is synonymous with canon's Jedi Order. The differences are... extreme. The Mandalorians take queues from canon's Mandos, but that doesn't mean that they are both the same. The formation of the board's Mandos and canon's Mandos are drastically different, and the running of both are similar, but not the same. The Sith Empire... well, if you think that that's controlling canon, then I'm not even gonna bother.

Over all... those three rules are dead rules for a reason. They don't make sense. They were birthed from trial and error, and they were done away with because everyone figured out that they made no sense, and didn't do anything to improve anything. You can't say, "Hey, welcome to SW:E, where you can RP in Star Wars!" Then, turn around and say, "Oh, but by the way, we're disallowing you from doing what makes Star Wars so great." It doesn't work, and it places too many restrictions on the posters. As a new person, if I were to look at this community, and take note that the rules restricted what I can and cannot do, I'd turn around and go look elsewhere. You can't tell someone that this is a place you can creatively write your own Star Wars stories, and then at the same time tell them that there are restrictions to what they can do. What's the point in that? This isn't a sim, it's a RPing board. I'm of the addage that, if you don't like it, then don't participate in it. No one ever said you have to read this stuff. If you don't like reading about large battles with dozens of ships, then don't read that stuff. If you don't like reading about powerful characters manipulating events in their favor, then don't. If you don't agree with the way the NR or GE is run, then don't pay attention to them. No one ever said that you have to.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Nichalus »

Cadden, I agree with about everything you said, but my biggest disagreement is....
If you don't agree with the way the NR or GE is run, then don't pay attention to them. No one ever said that you have to.
On the MBT, let's face it, the main stories usually revolve around these two groups. AND the majority of the people that would be joining our little band of writers is going to want to involve their characters around these two factions. By being completely unmallable to a new person's desire to join one or the other's faction, is where we lose any semblance of trying to work other people's ideas into our MBT.

Everyone, or generally everyone, wants to be involved in the NR or GE in some way. We can't just deny them that. Granted we can't just allow someone to jump onto the board fresh, and suddenly have a character of uber poweredness come to the MBT and say I can destroy you all with a thought, and I have a fleet of ships in the millions.

Now, as for the powerful characters that you have, I don't have a problem with that, since you really aren't lording them over everyone, and they have been fleshed out for years. I'm talking about fresh, completely unknown beings like this just popping up and demanding attention immediately...UNLESS...they are a part of a agreed upon storyline, and they are done away with when it is over. That is what I want to clarify concerning this particular matter.

The MBT is a 'continuing' creative story in 'our' forum. Eventually everyone gets involved with some aspect of an event that happens there. Since we are all writing our characters in the same universe. Granted, some folks my be 'away' from the event in another sector of space far away from the story. But we're all still connected to the 'same' universe.

But for the major factions that come from the Star Wars Universe, we must allow some wiggle room for those that wish to join them.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by PalinSoulForge »

What Nich just said about cooperation, everyone seems to think their stories need to effect a large majority of the board, or even certain planets. How many Star Wars novels have we read where major changes to the galaxy happen? Very few compared to the multitude that are out there.

The major thing thats stopped those people I recruited from SWTOR forums is they felt like they were on pins and needles and any little thing they would do would ignite PMs and threads saying you cant do this you cant do that we plan on doing this.

I'd like to see more of sure thats a great idea here my idea about how we can work the two together so both resonate in each others stories making them even more entertaining to read and fun to write.

and

That sounds like a great idea, I planned to hit the main Government building on Corellia but we can say it happened before or after your story if your ready to write it right now.

I guess the biggest thing we should start doing is creating the OOC: thread first and giving a brief description highlighting what you have planned so anyone whose got similar plans or plans that may interfere with that can post and be like hey lets work this out.

Perhaps we should adopt a new mantra for the boards. Cooperation and working together to make both stories happen in an acceptable manor to both writers and the board as a whole.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Jagtai »

I agree. Every story on the MBT should be presented on the RP OOC forum. Not only would others get a chance to say "hey, I got something going there, let's work something out" but also so that if someone isn't as forthcoming, you have proof that you planned it beforehand. Not so you can stop them from doing stuff, but so that they can see that you didn't just pull your idea out of your ... hat just now.

I really think it should be a rule. We are all entitled to know if someone else is planning to do something to the world our character is currently on, if only so we can incorporate into our stories. It would also save a lot of arguments, and let's face it, quite a few lectures from Mods.

Oh, and I have an addendum to the mantra: "Leave your ego at home."
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Nichalus »

I like Jag's idea, of using the RP OOC forum to throw out a storyline, getting ideas from others, and seeing who would be interested in joining in the IC Thread.

The idea doesn't really have to have a 'set' ending, but just a general idea of where it will go. This can allow for some spontanious creativity during the story, and more of an open ended way to get to the ultamite ending of the plot.

Personally, I don't have an 'exact' ending in mind for a story...I just have a 'general' way that I want it to end. I mean really, how many times during the course of writing out a story have we all been flowing along a certain direction, and then suddenly someone says something, or does something that spurs the imagination in a different way, and creates something that would be a cool addition to the story.

Take the Nespis MedStar thread we have going. The general story is to get the city up and running. We all know this isn't going to be an overnight thing to do. The end goal is to get it fully functional. BUT, I see 'many' opportunities for some side adventures there. Namely the Jedi Ghost that resides in the old Jedi Library. A perfect opportunity to get the MBT Jedi's involved, thus giving even more members of this forum an opportunity to join in on the thread, or create an alternate connected thread to investigate that.

That is really what I'm getting at..'creating' opportunities for other members to join. We should 'want' other members of our little disfunctional family to 'want' to join in, have some of the fun in a good story. None of us should be so closed minded that we 'wouldn't' want others to join. Right?
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Halomek »

The three rules mentioned come from a time when the boards had a lot more active members than it does now. I have to agree that by and large they’re not really relevant anymore. Speaking as a member and not a Mod, I think it might be time to revise them a bit.

The three ship rule is like one of those silly state laws that are still on the books, but that no one pays attention to anymore (for example, here in Washington lollipops are technically illegal, but I can assure you that every candy store is breaking the law). It was good when we had to monitor a lot of new people, but nowadays it’s not that hard to keep an eye on what anyone in our community is doing.

No GMing, no GMed characters is a good rule to have, but it might be a good idea to put in a provision that its acceptable if there’s a clear story purpose behind it.

Likewise, no controlling canon characters isn’t necessarily something we’d want to take down, but some exceptions (like Thrawn and Leia) are needed. I daresay both governments feel a lot more stable now than they were when they were run by player characters. I would suggest a provision for this one as well that limited interaction is okay in certain situations.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Halcyon508 »

I normally don't check the Gen OOC but I was pointed to your post Nich. almost all of my threads have always had an open door policy on them. Only rarely do I want to do a one on one thread with someone. I think for the most part everyone feels the same way about their threads as well and making OOC threads would facilitate that. After reading the last two/three posts (the only ones I read so if other good idea's have been presented sorry for not covering you) I will start posting OOC threads up. I had several stories in the work that were supposed to be one on one me and Beorht. He doesn't have time to devote to the forums so I think I'll spitball a few of them to the boards and see what sticks and what people are interested in. I mean I will probably still approach friends and ask them to join privately and shoot idea's off of them before I post but I def. think posting OOC's and recruitment threads would help raise the general activity level of the board and make threads more accessible.

I also agree that these set endings kinda suck. I try not to work out too many details for a thread because to me is has always been an issue of why bother RPing in it if you know everything that is going to happen? And on the few occasions I do come up with endings I make it fluid so the ending can change or perhaps the result is the same but the event is drastically different.

Edit: At the end of the day it is a matter of taste and I personally don't think we should legislate taste to FORCE someone to post their story in the OOC area. I know for a fact Cadden hates having everything public knowledge he likes to be secretive and h ave surprises otherwise he finds it dull to RP. I'm sure there are others out there who feel the same which is why I don't think it should be a RULE where you HAVE to post an OOC for everything you do. I mean that could get rather time consuming and waste valuable time that could be used RPing stories.

Also in relation to Halomek. How do you define if a GMed character is done for story? Also how do you define what a GM character is? Everyone has a different opinion and you'd have to lock it down in clearly defined rules which would just restrict. Right now we are a consent based RP so in order for someone to use a GMed character in a thread with a person or whatever you need to ask. So what's the honest harm here?
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by PalinSoulForge »

Personally its those secrets that start all the trouble. Do away with them do away with most of the trouble, imho. You don't gotta reveal all the minute details and ending that makes the people reading go wowzers but a brief outline hitting the high points like where at, when, whose involved ect. just so other people who might be doing something similar or at that location will know.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Nichalus »

I wasn't specifically pointing at any one person on the boards Haly, so I don't know if you were pointed to my post because someone assumed I was specially saying I was, or appeared that I was. If so, that was not my intention.

And yes, there are times where some folks want to do a one or one, or even a select small group, storyline on the MBT. That is absolutely all well and good, and perfectly acceptable in my eyes. But such a story should 'not' have a broad effect across the entire MBT. It should be localized to those specific characters, with an outcome that really shouldn't have a huge galaxy effecting outcome.

But those storylines that 'do' have such an effect, should be open for any and all that want to become involved in it. Since technically, it 'does' in some why have an effect on everyone writing in the MBT. Especially those that have characters within the NR and GE borders.

Like I said, having a general idea of how the story will end, means you can still get to where you were going eventually, but there should be room for tweaking and adjustments along the way for other members to join in and help out with things, especially if the plot could effect their character's environment.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Pryde »

I would think the only time certain details of a story need to be brought to the OOC is when they affect the galaxy. Like, if one of Cadden's surprises was to have someone betray Trayus we wouldn't really need to know that because it affects only Trayus, but if Trayus planned on blowing up someplace like Corellia then yeah, he should probably warn us first.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Halcyon508 »

PalinSoulForge wrote:Personally its those secrets that start all the trouble. Do away with them do away with most of the trouble, imho. You don't gotta reveal all the minute details and ending that makes the people reading go wowzers but a brief outline hitting the high points like where at, when, whose involved ect. just so other people who might be doing something similar or at that location will know.
Telling those secrets have also caused problems in several instances where people used that OOC knowledge to effect IC decisions and even OOC decisions. I mean regardless there is going to be conflict the key is to try and not be confrontational about it. Using my example of Cadden I think even what you're worried about isn't relevant to that particular example. Caddens stuff for the most part doesn't effect anything canon as far as location and doesn't need to be told if that is all we're worrying about. I mean if he does something with something he created I don't see a reason to talk to the board about it. In cases where people do something with canon planets at least saying "Hey I got plans here does anyone else?" is a good idea yes, at least if you're effecting it on some major level. But like if I'm going to just show up and do like a smuggling deal do I really need to go forward and be like "Hey what's up? I'm going to smuggle some stuff into Corellia is anyone doing something there?" I mean that isn't really needed is it?
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Nichalus »

Also in relation to Halomek. How do you define if a GMed character is done for story? Also how do you define what a GM character is? Everyone has a different opinion and you'd have to lock it down in clearly defined rules which would just restrict. Right now we are a consent based RP so in order for someone to use a GMed character in a thread with a person or whatever you need to ask. So what's the honest harm here?
In my opinion, it depends on how the GM'ed character is going to be used. Especially if it is on the MBT. It raises alot of questions.

Is this member that creates the GM'ed character going to demand that everyone that comes in contact IC with him, to do and react to such a powerful character at the author's whim?

Is the member/character going to use this uber being to change the status quo across the entire, or large part of the MBT universe for as long as he wants too? Or is there a set usage for him, and in the end of a short period, he will be defeated, disappear, etc.?

I'm sure there are many more, but you get the point I'm trying to make.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by PalinSoulForge »

Halcyon508 wrote:
PalinSoulForge wrote:Personally its those secrets that start all the trouble. Do away with them do away with most of the trouble, imho. You don't gotta reveal all the minute details and ending that makes the people reading go wowzers but a brief outline hitting the high points like where at, when, whose involved ect. just so other people who might be doing something similar or at that location will know.
Telling those secrets have also caused problems in several instances where people used that OOC knowledge to effect IC decisions and even OOC decisions. I mean regardless there is going to be conflict the key is to try and not be confrontational about it. Using my example of Cadden I think even what you're worried about isn't relevant to that particular example. Caddens stuff for the most part doesn't effect anything canon as far as location and doesn't need to be told if that is all we're worrying about. I mean if he does something with something he created I don't see a reason to talk to the board about it. In cases where people do something with canon planets at least saying "Hey I got plans here does anyone else?" is a good idea yes, at least if you're effecting it on some major level. But like if I'm going to just show up and do like a smuggling deal do I really need to go forward and be like "Hey what's up? I'm going to smuggle some stuff into Corellia is anyone doing something there?" I mean that isn't really needed is it?
Yeah but I thought one of the points was putting it out there so other people could get involved with stories of their own or perhaps find a liking to their story. Yeah it might not effect a single other writer but what if the betrayal of a well known character is something someone else wants to get involved in, if there wasnt a thread saying, "Hey guys this is the thread on Dublin that Alphie is gonna meet his end." then nobody will have a clue. That sentence is all im saying is needed. That way Bob can be like hey I have a gladiator arena on Dublin and I am having the grand championship, perhaps Alphie wants to win that as a last hurrah.
Last edited by PalinSoulForge on Tue May 17, 2011 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Halcyon508 »

Nichalus wrote:
Also in relation to Halomek. How do you define if a GMed character is done for story? Also how do you define what a GM character is? Everyone has a different opinion and you'd have to lock it down in clearly defined rules which would just restrict. Right now we are a consent based RP so in order for someone to use a GMed character in a thread with a person or whatever you need to ask. So what's the honest harm here?
In my opinion, it depends on how the GM'ed character is going to be used. Especially if it is on the MBT. It raises alot of questions.

Is this member that creates the GM'ed character going to demand that everyone that comes in contact IC with him, to do and react to such a powerful character at the author's whim?

Is the member/character going to use this uber being to change the status quo across the entire, or large part of the MBT universe for as long as he wants too? Or is there a set usage for him, and in the end of a short period, he will be defeated, disappear, etc.?

I'm sure there are many more, but you get the point I'm trying to make.
Nah I get where you're coming from I just think if we make rules and all that it will cause more trouble than it is worth. Right now there aren't a ton of characters out there like that and frankly I don't mind the ones that ARE GMed out the frame because all of them have a story purpose. And even if they weren't as I said it is a consent based board all you have to do is tell the person you don't want that character in your thread and that character doesn't have to be in your thread. As I said it is a matter of taste and we shouldn't legislate taste.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Pryde »

I wanna legislate up some pizza rolls, god damn I'm hungry.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Halcyon508 »

PalinSoulForge wrote:Yeah but I thought one of the points was putting it out there so other people could get involved with stories of their own or perhaps find a liking to their story. Yeah it might not effect a single other writer but what if the betrayal of a well known character is something someone else wants to get involved in, if there wasnt a thread saying, "Hey guys this is the thread on Dublin that Alphie is gonna meet his end." then nobody will have a clue. That sentence is all im saying is needed. That way Bob can be like hey I have a gladiator arena on Dublin and I am having the grand championship, perhaps Alphie wants to win that as a last hurrah.
What if that person doesn't WANT someone else involved? What if Person X and Y just want to do a thread together because they enjoy writing with one another and want to do a semi private project to develop some of their characters? To LEGISLATE the need to post an OOC isn't the answer. That's all I'm saying. I agree in principal that more OOC posts and recruitment threads will lead to more activity in the long run but to legislate it so you have to post an OOC is just wrong in my opinion.

And yes Pryde I too shall eat some Pizza Rolls....
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Cadden »

I shoulda been more specific, but I had/have a splitting headache and had a churning stomach. An hour in bed seems to have helped, though... so, let me try to correct this.

When I said don't pay attention to the governments, I'm referring to the assumption that you don't want to RP in them to begin with. I was operating off of the set premise earlier in the post that you weren't going to RP them. I didn't reread my post, so I don't know if that transition was clear or not. Any NR/GE RPer can RP Leia/Thrawn accordingly, as necessary only. There's no rule that prevents that from happening. I think Thrawn's only had an accumulated, what, twenty posts maybe since the rules placed him in charge? I don't know about Leia, the NR's always had weak representation from the RPing standpoint. No offense to the NR folks, I merely haven't really seen anything strong from that direction.

The secret forums... there's three of them. Two of them are not likely to be necessary anymore. Let me explain what went down there.

The first one was with the creation of the Shadow War stuff. I approached the NR and GE heads before that forum was made, and got the go-ahead to do my stuff. Then it magically turned into the fact that the GE heads forgot about it. It started with mass PMs (not to be confused with PMS), then everyone said, "This sucks, we need to post about it." The forum was born. It was designed as a temporary forum, and its sole purpose was to flesh out the Shadow War between the interested parties. The forum doesn't need to be public, because unless you want to be a part of the Shadow War (no one says you do), then you wouldn't care about it anyway.

The SE forum was designed as a place for the new SE dudes to come together and talk about how they're going to handle the recreation of the SE. Again, there became little reason to share with the rest of the boards, and the stuff that is needed, they merely made the topic(s) on the RP OOC forum instead.

The third forum is as necessary as the mod forum. It's the Wikia forum, designed as a place for the mods/admin here and the admin of the Wikia to talk about stuff. The community doesn't need to know what goes on there, most of it the community couldn't care less about to begin with anyway. That which does affect the community, by the Wikia rules, will be discussed with the community and a consensus reached. That stuff doesn't happen often, but it has in the past.

That out of the way... the hidden forum about the Shadow War stuff was meant to hammer out the details. Afterwards, it was supposed to be presented to the boards as a whole and say, "This is the plan of action concerning this stuff." Evidently, that never happened. Being the person at the reigns of the Shadow War, I'm already working to keep that alive and running well (granted, with my shot motivation to post ICly lately, that's taken a hit), and working on the IC progression of said war. I do know that it was approached to the community, after the discussion was made, that the NR and GE would be going to war, and that the Mandos would get Thyferra, Fondor, etc. I know that the community was told that the NR and GE would be slowly spiraling into chaos and war against one another, after all the parties agreed upon this in the hidden forum. But the problem is that the rules state you gotta work the faction coordinators... so either the faction coordinators aren't doing their job, or people are not approaching them with their ideas, and thus somehow the awareness of what is going on remains minimal. The faction coordinators know that the NR and GE are going to be going at each others throats not long after Sivter's death, and they know the Sith Brotherhood is working its magic to slowly tear apart the foundations that maintain the two factions' uneasy cease fire agreement. So, either the faction coordinators aren't bothering to tell people who approach them about this stuff, or the people who want to do stuff like create a story that solidifies peace between the two either don't bother talking to the faction coordinators first, or don't care what the FCs have to say.

I'm not pointing fingers or making accusations, but from where I'm standing, that's what's happening there. Communication is key to this stuff, and somewhere in that line, something isn't going on the way it should be. Our FCs know about this stuff, so it starts with that, and somewhere between there and the people who should be approaching them about stories involving the two factions, something's messed up.

The big story involving the Shadow War, the Crimson Empire, Sith Brotherhood, and RAHK'NEQAH (yeah, I just leaked a hint, there....) has a beginning, middle, and end. This is how I work things. But the nature of this story, it needs an end. I don't really need to be discussing with people how it's going to end. Most of the people that have told me personally, or told the boards as a whole, that they're intrigued by Rahk'neqah and the story I'm taking him... they'd stop caring about the story if they knew how it would end. They wouldn't care any longer if I finally revealed who, exactly, he is, or what, exactly, it is he has in mind, etc. I've built this character up very slowly since the SOE. Those that remember him merely as the "Nomad Soul" back then (who possessed several individuals, half of which were on the isolated Hoth-like world of Talmohkt, the other two instances with Cadden himself) would remember how he started out as a minor character, whose role continued to build up, and came to head as who he is now. Slowly, and surely, I've been gradually introducing something about him to the boards. The biggest difference is I made some key modifications to the character after taking a short, selective poll with the people that already know about him and finding out that, despite the unique take I had on the character, it wasn't as unique as it could have been, and needed to be more. But that's it. And from that, I created a stronger storyline for the character, and a better ending to the story. Or, at least, it is my hope that it's a better ending. :P

Therefore, I have to disagree that you need to tell people what the ending is. Halo didn't, until it came to that point, and I don't believe he told everyone. He told me, 'cause he wanted me a part of it. I don't know about the others, if they have anything in mind specifically, but they won't tell, nor should they. It ruins it.

Anyone who's RPed with me knows I'm very lenient about their involvement in my stories, so long as it doesn't affect the larger picture negatively. I'll let them know if it does, but seldom does it. I leave a lot of stuff open on my end, because I don't want to plan out how to get there. It ruins the fun for everyone else, if I tell them, "No, because it goes against my plans." Especially if I refuse to tell them those plans, which most people I do refuse to discuss with about the story behind Rahk'neqah. And, in doing so, it makes him a better character, 'cause everyone's trying to guess who he is. (Smoke even threw a good guess at me a while back that he could even be a split personality, of sorts, to Cadden. Something which history disproves, but it was a good guess.) I enjoy having people continue to wonder who he is, and people, from what I've learned, enjoy continuing trying to figure him out. The mystery is the biggest selling point to a good story. But, back on track about my point with this paragraph. True, if I were to tell people what was going down, it would make cooperation much easier. But, at the same time, it would make the story itself weaker, because it eliminates the suspense, the mystery, and the desperation to end the threat posed.

If someone were to tell me that Vader kills Palpatine over Endor when I've only watched ANH and, maybe, ESB, then why should I bother to finish watching the story? I know how it ends already. Sure, it might still be a good watch, but it defeats the purpose, and eliminates the hook. Yes, people still watch the movies, even knowing what goes down, that Vader's Luke's daddy, and that he's really Anakin Skywalker, and Obi-Wan dies in ANH, and all those other things that propel a story forward. But, at that point, they're not watchign because they want to know the story, they're watching because they liked it.

Same deal goes on with writing. Why would I want to read through a book, or a board story, if I already know how things end? Or if someone has already told me all the detailing points that drive the story, such as the plot twists and the driving battles that lead up to the grand finale confrontation? Where's the point in it after you know the information before you read the story? Sure, you need something, but that doesn't mean the storymaker needs to create a detailed essay about what they want to do.

The biggest issue that a lot of people have with approaching the boards about their story is that everyone is so uptight about their own creations. Heaven forbid the Jedi Order should be virtually wiped out (again), or that the BSC should be completely overrun by an external force, or that the Crimson Empire should be crushed by the NR and GE allying themselves together and fighting against the threat. This is a storytelling board, people, not a sim. I fail to see why people are so possessive about their stuff. What if the board was wiped from existence, no backups made? And the Wikia were to follow, with all that information just gone forever? What we have here is fickle in its very nature. It's not designed to last. Yet most of the people here are grasping at straws, hoarding as much of this imaginary power for themselves as possible, as if there's something to gain from it. Jag put it best... leave your ego at home.

I was initially hesitant about approaching people about the Shadow War for this very reason. I did it only because the board rules dictated I had to. I'm still hesitant, because of the fact that the way people try to defend everything here they have, they already make such things impossible to do without ticking somebody off. What if the Shadow War required the complete ruin of the BSC? (I hate to pick on you, Jag, but it's the most relevant example I can think of at this time, plus I can't be bothered to research who else there is at this time.) Well, if Jag says, "Uhh, no..." then I guess not, right? Nothing lasts forever, and people should know from my RPing history I'm the least likely person to be possessive of my stuff.

I'm going to stop there, 'cause I just realized I think I lost my point. :P

ADDENDUM: Lots of people posted during that long-winded post of mine... I didn't read it in detail, but I did skim it, and fortunately I think I still have it covered here. If not, feel free to prod. In the non-physical way.....
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by PalinSoulForge »

Halcyon508 wrote:
PalinSoulForge wrote:Yeah but I thought one of the points was putting it out there so other people could get involved with stories of their own or perhaps find a liking to their story. Yeah it might not effect a single other writer but what if the betrayal of a well known character is something someone else wants to get involved in, if there wasnt a thread saying, "Hey guys this is the thread on Dublin that Alphie is gonna meet his end." then nobody will have a clue. That sentence is all im saying is needed. That way Bob can be like hey I have a gladiator arena on Dublin and I am having the grand championship, perhaps Alphie wants to win that as a last hurrah.
What if that person doesn't WANT someone else involved? What if Person X and Y just want to do a thread together because they enjoy writing with one another and want to do a semi private project to develop some of their characters? To LEGISLATE the need to post an OOC isn't the answer. That's all I'm saying. I agree in principal that more OOC posts and recruitment threads will lead to more activity in the long run but to legislate it so you have to post an OOC is just wrong in my opinion.

And yes Pryde I too shall eat some Pizza Rolls....
Thats simple, "Hey Bob sorry but Frankie and I wanted to write this story by ourselves, next time though." "Ok no problem Jim, next time."
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Halcyon508 »

PalinSoulForge wrote:Thats simple, "Hey Bob sorry but Frankie and I wanted to write this story by ourselves, next time though." "Ok no problem Jim, next time."
Then why bother posting an OOC to begin with... if you aren't effecting anything and you don't want anyone to join for whatever reason why bother with an OOC thread. It is a waste of time and energy.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by PalinSoulForge »

See thats the exact problem right there.. A small group of people agreed Fondor, Thyferra would become Mandos, not just GE or NR changing hands.. thats a BIG deal and should be a board decision not 3-4 people... That right there is whats causing all the problems.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by PalinSoulForge »

Halcyon508 wrote:
PalinSoulForge wrote:Thats simple, "Hey Bob sorry but Frankie and I wanted to write this story by ourselves, next time though." "Ok no problem Jim, next time."
Then why bother posting an OOC to begin with... if you aren't effecting anything and you don't want anyone to join for whatever reason why bother with an OOC thread. It is a waste of time and energy.
Thats a very generalized example, id say more times than not people are looking for others to get involved.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Pryde »

That's not necessarily true, I had wanted my big storyline to be this huge thing that everyone can get involved with. Then I revised it into something more akin to an Indiana Jones adventure, small in scale with grand consequences if we fail. Thing is there are already like five different characters involved with the thread on the hero's side. I suppose there's always room for more bad guys but can you imagine how Raiders of the Lost Ark or The Last Crusade would have worked if Indy had himself, his pals and a legion of followers to help him? Some stories you just have to keep the participation small, I personally hate doing things like that but that's the only way to make the story work.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Cadden »

Why would it matter to anyone not GE or Mando what happens to those worlds, Palin? GE owns them, they agreed with me and Top that Mandos would get them. How is it that someone else, who's not affiliated with either, can say no to it if the whole thing involving the war that claims those worlds doesn't branch out to anyone else or anywhere else? It's strictly between the GE and Mandos. Why should anyone else be asked about it? Again, the job of the FC is to tell people, "This is going down. It's been agreed upon."

I shouldn't have to ask the NR if it's okay if the Mandos go and take GE worlds. I shouldn't have to ask anyone that's not involved about it. They have no say on whether the Mandos should get those worlds. Niko and I run the Mandos, corsos and Halo run the GE. Only other people in the equation are the specific RPers of said factions. But, ultimately, it's the choice of the faction leaders, regardless... not someone who's not even involved in either group.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Halcyon508 »

PalinSoulForge wrote:
Halcyon508 wrote:
PalinSoulForge wrote:Thats simple, "Hey Bob sorry but Frankie and I wanted to write this story by ourselves, next time though." "Ok no problem Jim, next time."
Then why bother posting an OOC to begin with... if you aren't effecting anything and you don't want anyone to join for whatever reason why bother with an OOC thread. It is a waste of time and energy.
Thats a very generalized example, id say more times than not people are looking for others to get involved.
I think we'd have more recruitment threads if that were true. To me it seems that people don't mind others RPing in their threads but want to RP with their core group of friends. Either way FORCING people to post OOC's isn't going to work.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by PalinSoulForge »

Cadden wrote:Why would it matter to anyone not GE or Mando what happens to those worlds, Palin? GE owns them, they agreed with me and Top that Mandos would get them. How is it that someone else, who's not affiliated with either, can say no to it if the whole thing involving the war that claims those worlds doesn't branch out to anyone else or anywhere else? It's strictly between the GE and Mandos. Why should anyone else be asked about it? Again, the job of the FC is to tell people, "This is going down. It's been agreed upon."

I shouldn't have to ask the NR if it's okay if the Mandos go and take GE worlds. I shouldn't have to ask anyone that's not involved about it. They have no say on whether the Mandos should get those worlds. Niko and I run the Mandos, corsos and Halo run the GE. Only other people in the equation are the specific RPers of said factions. But, ultimately, it's the choice of the faction leaders, regardless... not someone who's not even involved in either group.
I disagree with you, the GE losing one of its main shipyards and the universe biggest supplier of bacta is a board wide discussion, even more so if its not going to the NR.

On another note the FCs are there to coordinate stories, not give away planets as they see fit without input from the board. The NR and GE belong to every single person. I have characters i've RPed and continue to RP on and off in both governments, like Nich said before new people are generally going to focus on the NR and GE. If its one thing that should be considered everyones on this board its def the NR and GE.

Now if two indies wanna go willy nilly and trade planets behind closed doors more power to them, they are their governments. The same can't be said for the NR and GE.

This is a prime example of why people get mad and we have these threads pop up every few months.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Nichalus »

So, either the faction coordinators aren't bothering to tell people who approach them about this stuff, or the people who want to do stuff like create a story that solidifies peace between the two either don't bother talking to the faction coordinators first, or don't care what the FCs have to say.
If, and I said IF, that was directed towards the 105th Red Dagger stuff. I did indeed speak with both FC's of the NR and GE. Just an FYI
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by PalinSoulForge »

Nichalus wrote:
So, either the faction coordinators aren't bothering to tell people who approach them about this stuff, or the people who want to do stuff like create a story that solidifies peace between the two either don't bother talking to the faction coordinators first, or don't care what the FCs have to say.
If, and I said IF, that was directed towards the 105th Red Dagger stuff. I did indeed speak with both FC's of the NR and GE. Just an FYI
and we are well aware of the upcoming war. I plan to kick my Warlord stuff into full gear some of which the 105th RDF will help put down. Just because we've agreed to go to war doesn't mean we cant have a great story that striving for peace.
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Halcyon508 »

PalinSoulForge wrote:
Cadden wrote:Why would it matter to anyone not GE or Mando what happens to those worlds, Palin? GE owns them, they agreed with me and Top that Mandos would get them. How is it that someone else, who's not affiliated with either, can say no to it if the whole thing involving the war that claims those worlds doesn't branch out to anyone else or anywhere else? It's strictly between the GE and Mandos. Why should anyone else be asked about it? Again, the job of the FC is to tell people, "This is going down. It's been agreed upon."

I shouldn't have to ask the NR if it's okay if the Mandos go and take GE worlds. I shouldn't have to ask anyone that's not involved about it. They have no say on whether the Mandos should get those worlds. Niko and I run the Mandos, corsos and Halo run the GE. Only other people in the equation are the specific RPers of said factions. But, ultimately, it's the choice of the faction leaders, regardless... not someone who's not even involved in either group.
I disagree with you, the GE losing one of its main shipyards and the universe biggest supplier of bacta is a board wide discussion, even more so if its not going to the NR.

On another note the FCs are there to coordinate stories, not give away planets as they see fit without input from the board. The NR and GE belong to every single person. I have characters i've RPed and continue to RP on and off in both governments, like Nich said before new people are generally going to focus on the NR and GE. If its one thing that should be considered everyones on this board its def the NR and GE.

Now if two indies wanna go willy nilly and trade planets behind closed doors more power to them, they are their governments. The same can't be said for the NR and GE.

This is a prime example of why people get mad and we have these threads pop up every few months.
That particular decision was made BEFORE the new rules anyways so a bad example. But yeah technically the FC's are supposed to know everything that goes down in their faction and be told so that a person wanting to do a plotline with said faction only needs to go to the FC. So if someones plotline is to invade a planet in previous mentioned faction all he needs to do is talk to the FC to see what's going on.
Domani, forget domani
Let's live for now and anyhow who needs domani?
~ Frank Sinatra, Forget Domani
Mand'alor
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Cadden »

It's an unfair argument to make that, because it's a major shipyard and a supplier of bacta, that automatically the entire community needs to agree on it. You don't know what the Mandos are going to do after the dust settles. For all you know they could find a way to make the bacta produce and get distributed far more efficiently than before. And the shipyards... there's other shipyards. Fondor's shipyards are affiliated with whoever controls the planet. Therefore, the shipyards change hands from the GE to the Mandos. Once again, it really doesn't affect anyone outside the two groups.
You have a right to remain silent... I hope to God you use it.
Xanamiar wrote:Cadden is a comical genius.
Pryngles
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Re: Out of Hiding...

Post by Pryde »

Guys, Thyferra and Fondor are not the focus here.
"Ol' Doc doesn't hide, he hibernates." -- Doc, Star Wars: The Old Republic

"What do you call it when you kill someone and take all their stuff?"
"Adventuring!" -- Tallis and Hawke, Dragon Age 2.
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